I don't think Avatar will be remembered at all (nor Inception or any of the others I mentioned), but I'm sure Potemkin will still stand as one of the best movies made when it's 160 years old. It's not supposed to be subtle, it's supposed to be rousing, it's supposed to rally the masses behind a cause and it does so brilliantly.
With respect to it being "slow", yeah, it is. But it is still faster than pretty much any other movie made at that time, in part due to the montage elements in it (with the notable exception of Man With A Movie Camera, it has the same average shot length as Michael Bay's Armageddon). For me, however, the slowness of it helped build up to the climax (the storm on the port), made it so much more effective. There's a reason that the scene on the steps in Odessa has been referenced in movies such as The Godfather and The Untouchables (not to mention in Woody Allen's Bananas).
I suspect any movie will pale next to Shakespeare, so that was perhaps a bad choice as an analogy, I'll give you that.
heh, that's an interesting point you make there. Do YOU think that Avatar, for instance, is going to still be hailed as one of the greatest films ever produced 80 years down the line? I don't. I don't think it should be either. Yet Potemkin still is, for some reason.
As for your Shakespeare comparison - sure, let's take away the fact that his dialog was remarkably original for its time. Is the dialog still good? Yes, I would say so! It's incredibly clever (although you might need a good study guide to understand half of the outdated in-jokes and references), even if you forget its place in history.
Now do the same for Potemkin. If you forget how original it is, it's not very exciting. It's overacted, slow paced, and completely lacking in subtlety.
If you don't believe me, go show Potemkin to a bunch of people who know nothing about it (a room of high schoolers, for instance). Then show them one of the film re-enactments of Shakespeare's plays. Is there even any doubt that every single one of them is going to prefer Shakespeare?
It is propaganda! Highly effective propaganda at that, it just doesn't get any better. I become a raging anti-Tsarist for a 15-20 minutes after watching it. That's part of what makes it so good.
Take away the graphic violence and novel filming techniques from... say, Inception, what are you left with? Or The Dark Knight? Or Star Wars? Or any James Cameron film? Not much, if anything. Yet these movies have tons of "best movie evar!" comments on their pages here.
"Taking away" the visuals from a visual movie is indeed missing the point, in my opinion, because you're taking away the point. Imagine a Shakespeare play where you take away the dialogue, what are you left with? Simplistic love stories and medieval "cops and robbers" tales. Hardly enlightening, to steal your phrase.
Eh, if you say so. Potemkin seems like such a hilariously simple morality tale to me - to the point of propoganda, even. If you take away its novel film techniques (which are so widely used these days that they're below notice) and you take away the "graphic" violence factor that attracted audiences to the movie in the first place, there's not much left to the movie other than "Down with the Tsarists!" Hardly an enlightening message.
But it's possible I missed the point; I'm no film critic.
You're saying that if you knew nothing about the movie's place in history, you'd like it just as much? You'd compare it favorably with masterpieces from the 40's and 50's?
Oh, and I agree with George Bailey's sentiments about the japanese animations on this list. Even though I'm a fan of the medium in general, Miyazaki is one of my least favorite directors out there. Heavily overrepresented on this list.
Silent films also tend to bore me. I have a hard time believing that anyone really thinks Battleship Potemkin actually holds up, and isn't just well respected because of its age and technical achievements. It's not on this list, but same argument for Metropolis, really.
Even Chaplin and Keaton are pretty unwatchable these days. I genuinely think Looney Tunes is significantly funnier than either of them.
Lists like these are utterly subjective and it's really only the individual's opinion on whether it's of value or not. Personally, I think it's pretty decently represented for casual or "mainstream" movie-goers and provides enough information for those of us who want to look deeper.
ColdPizza, they're actually pretty good! The Gold Rush, The Kid and Metropolis are amazing!
I am on 246/250 and I have got two japanese animations that I am not looking forward to see...
Myeah, but people complaining about the list can also just be out of frustration of general filmfans taste. Which IMDB250 is.
I remember years ago when I first saw the list being very disappointed too.
These days I feel it could have been a lot worse.
At least the general public recognizes quality movies with stories and content, and not only mindless teen comedies, only movies from 2000s or a majority of Michael Bay-ish effects movies. There is movies of all ages and nationalities on the list. A lot of deemed classics.
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Comments 316 - 330 of 579
Knaldskalle
I don't think Avatar will be remembered at all (nor Inception or any of the others I mentioned), but I'm sure Potemkin will still stand as one of the best movies made when it's 160 years old. It's not supposed to be subtle, it's supposed to be rousing, it's supposed to rally the masses behind a cause and it does so brilliantly.With respect to it being "slow", yeah, it is. But it is still faster than pretty much any other movie made at that time, in part due to the montage elements in it (with the notable exception of Man With A Movie Camera, it has the same average shot length as Michael Bay's Armageddon). For me, however, the slowness of it helped build up to the climax (the storm on the port), made it so much more effective. There's a reason that the scene on the steps in Odessa has been referenced in movies such as The Godfather and The Untouchables (not to mention in Woody Allen's Bananas).
I suspect any movie will pale next to Shakespeare, so that was perhaps a bad choice as an analogy, I'll give you that.
s_mertt
Devam? gelecek....naikou
heh, that's an interesting point you make there. Do YOU think that Avatar, for instance, is going to still be hailed as one of the greatest films ever produced 80 years down the line? I don't. I don't think it should be either. Yet Potemkin still is, for some reason.As for your Shakespeare comparison - sure, let's take away the fact that his dialog was remarkably original for its time. Is the dialog still good? Yes, I would say so! It's incredibly clever (although you might need a good study guide to understand half of the outdated in-jokes and references), even if you forget its place in history.
Now do the same for Potemkin. If you forget how original it is, it's not very exciting. It's overacted, slow paced, and completely lacking in subtlety.
If you don't believe me, go show Potemkin to a bunch of people who know nothing about it (a room of high schoolers, for instance). Then show them one of the film re-enactments of Shakespeare's plays. Is there even any doubt that every single one of them is going to prefer Shakespeare?
Knaldskalle
It is propaganda! Highly effective propaganda at that, it just doesn't get any better. I become a raging anti-Tsarist for a 15-20 minutes after watching it. That's part of what makes it so good.Take away the graphic violence and novel filming techniques from... say, Inception, what are you left with? Or The Dark Knight? Or Star Wars? Or any James Cameron film? Not much, if anything. Yet these movies have tons of "best movie evar!" comments on their pages here.
"Taking away" the visuals from a visual movie is indeed missing the point, in my opinion, because you're taking away the point. Imagine a Shakespeare play where you take away the dialogue, what are you left with? Simplistic love stories and medieval "cops and robbers" tales. Hardly enlightening, to steal your phrase.
naikou
Eh, if you say so. Potemkin seems like such a hilariously simple morality tale to me - to the point of propoganda, even. If you take away its novel film techniques (which are so widely used these days that they're below notice) and you take away the "graphic" violence factor that attracted audiences to the movie in the first place, there's not much left to the movie other than "Down with the Tsarists!" Hardly an enlightening message.But it's possible I missed the point; I'm no film critic.
Knaldskalle
Some of the best movies I've ever seen are silent movies. They've lost none (or very little) of their power over the years. The Passion of Joan of Arc, Man with a Movie Camera, Battleship Potemkin, Greed, The Big Parade, The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari and The Crowd are simply outstanding movies no matter how you look at them. They send shivers down my spine and make my palms sweaty. There's a reason they're counted among the best ever made.Knaldskalle
Honestly.naikou
You're saying that if you knew nothing about the movie's place in history, you'd like it just as much? You'd compare it favorably with masterpieces from the 40's and 50's?Honestly now?
Knaldskalle
Battleship Potemkin holds up 100%.naikou
Oh, and I agree with George Bailey's sentiments about the japanese animations on this list. Even though I'm a fan of the medium in general, Miyazaki is one of my least favorite directors out there. Heavily overrepresented on this list.naikou
Silent films also tend to bore me. I have a hard time believing that anyone really thinks Battleship Potemkin actually holds up, and isn't just well respected because of its age and technical achievements. It's not on this list, but same argument for Metropolis, really.Even Chaplin and Keaton are pretty unwatchable these days. I genuinely think Looney Tunes is significantly funnier than either of them.
mrbasehart
Lists like these are utterly subjective and it's really only the individual's opinion on whether it's of value or not. Personally, I think it's pretty decently represented for casual or "mainstream" movie-goers and provides enough information for those of us who want to look deeper.George Bailey
ColdPizza, they're actually pretty good! The Gold Rush, The Kid and Metropolis are amazing!I am on 246/250 and I have got two japanese animations that I am not looking forward to see...
ColdP1zza
Gotta finish this list, but its hard to bring myself to watch the silent black and white films from the 1920's without falling asleep.Imps
Myeah, but people complaining about the list can also just be out of frustration of general filmfans taste. Which IMDB250 is.I remember years ago when I first saw the list being very disappointed too.
These days I feel it could have been a lot worse.
At least the general public recognizes quality movies with stories and content, and not only mindless teen comedies, only movies from 2000s or a majority of Michael Bay-ish effects movies. There is movies of all ages and nationalities on the list. A lot of deemed classics.
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